The Denver 50: Rumor #2

I hope the payoff is better than these “leaked rumours” The only reason I might keep checking them out is the same reason I sometimes watch SNL, in the hopes it might get better, but sadly it never does.

and I just joined the club.. so they have $160 more for production

A great show idea that is now being wrecked buy a stupid campaign. Makes it look like a local show.

It IS a local show.

And is it really a great idea? Since basically everyone gets in (from what I’ve seen), and there are no Bronze, Silvers, Golds and Best of Shows, how’s a creative to leverage themselves in the Denver marketplace? Or for that matter out of the Denver marketplace where the 50 isn’t even at the level of the Addy’s?

Someone please enlighten me. Without being scathing, name calling or sarcastic, if possible. I’ve been away since this was thing was thought up.

Although, I remember hearing talk of the possibility of such a book over six years ago. But as I recall it was to be given out as a way of showcasing Denver as a creative market.

Fuck yea nothing says new and innovative like winning a bronze or gold whatever. No one gives those out. Yea how can I judge my own progress with out someone telling me I’m progressing fuck yea. Everyone got in, there was only 50 entries how weird.

50 entries is a lot for such a small market.

I can’t imagine other markets, like Minneapolis, eliminating Best of Show or medals but I understand that if Denver needs a kindler, gentler, less competitive ad show so be it.

There are like 4 or 5 main shops here (not counting CP+B). Yet plenty of shops were in that 50 book. Everyone got in.

I’m just looking for someone to explain the reasoning behind it. That’s all. So I’ll understand it better.

David, The Denver 50 gives 50 awards. How many awards are given in a typical ADDY show? Way more than 100. I’d say the Denver 50 is the most competitive local show in the nation. Like CA, in the Denver 50 you’re either or out. And if you’re in, it really means something.

That logic convinced many local agencies that often skip local shows (like Sukle, Cameron Christopher Thomas, Factory and Morey Evans) to enter the Denver 50. And it helped us merchandise the book outside the market, to showcase our market.

Ask yourself, what would make Denver suck less – plastic trophies for your cubicle shelf or a unique show with a nice, bound book?

I knew someone would liken it to CA. But it’s really not like CA at all because pretty much any shop that enters, gets in. Which is hardly the case of CA.

I saw the book. I thought it was great and well-produced and applaud the effort and hard work that went in to producing it (aside from the photos on the front featuring people that weren’t even in the book). If they call it The 50 and then still have medals and Best of Show, then the competitiveness of the show escalates tremendously. But since there are no absolutes in the show, all it really does, in my mind, is lower wages and competitiveness. I mean, even the Graphis Annual has moved to medals.

The agencies you mentioned had been big proponents of the local shows all along. They’ve always supported the ad community.

But then TDA, didn’t enter. Which is like holding the Olympics without the Russians showing up. And will CP+B enter? They certainly have 50 ideas alone in a year that would dominate such a show. But I’m not sure what their motivation would be other than to show everyone what good guys they are by giving a nod to the locals.

As for physical trophies, I think they should eliminated. They’re a waste of wood and plastic. I agree that the book should serve as a trophy in itself. But I completely disagree with the lack of medals and a Best of Show. I can’t imagine a major show ever doing this—and not for revenue reasons.

I welcome discussion.

David, you have said twice now that “pretty much any shop that enters, gets in.” You should check your facts before insisting on something that’s not true.

I don’t have the entries in front of me, but I believe that in 2007 32 agencies entered and only 13 got in. I will double check that for you next week, but if I am off, it’s not by much.

13 is a lot for this market. There are five or six main shops here. The two best known shops in Colorado on a national level (and that’s not my opinion—just relaying what I’ve heard in other markets), didn’t even enter. I haven’t seen the book in a while, so I don’t know the numbers either. But there were maybe three entries, campaigns, whatever, that enjoyed success in shows at a national level, am I correct? Which is what, like 6%? In a show like Minneapolis, probably 75-80% of the book would be work that goes on to win at a national level. I would say that’s very, very competitive, wouldn’t you? If it’s 50, 100, 250. Doesn’t matter. Saying the Denver 50 is among the most competitive shows in the country is just plain silly. If you were at a shop in Denver and did something good, you got in. If you were at a shop in Denver and did something great, you got in. It didn’t matter. There was OK work in that book and then there was killer work. But it all came out the same in the wash.

David, OK, if your point is that the Denver 50 isn’t as competitive as Hatch or the Rosies, then yes, you’re right. But that is not what you said. You said everyone who enters gets in. And that’s absolutely not true.

The Denver 50 is far more competitive than the Denver ADDYs were.

I’m not so sure. But I’m enjoying your debate.

Is it really good if you’re creative X who has done the best campaign in the entire Denver 50 book to put yourself on an even keel with creative Y who has just done okay work to get in? Especially in a local show where really only winning Best of Show matters? I know several people here who have dissed the Addys but this show isn’t even at Addy level of recognition (yes, I know it’s a new show but you know what I’m saying.)

Let’s say you move to a different shop in Denver. You’ve been in the 50. There’s a 100% chance the shop you’re moving to has been in it too. Is your work better than their work or is it just the same? Is my logo for a local restaurant as good as your interactive brand campaign? The whole point of award shows is to bring objectivity by committee to an occupation that is in itself highly subjective on an individual level.

Truthfully, the old Denver Addy show had really only two winners. 1) Best of Show and 2) whatever agency took home the most. That’s competitive. And that’s not everyone. That’s not 50 winners.

David, only you and I would spend our weekends debating this. :-)

The second winner in your equation (“whichever agency took home the most”) still exists in the Denver 50. I think Cactus and Factory tied at 11 and Integer was close behind with, like, 9 or 10. So it sounds like your only real gripe is the lack of a Best of Show winner. That’s a fair criticism. It’s something we debated. It would be easy to tell everyone what the highest-scored idea was and crown it best of show. But it seemed to us that the book would market our city better without one idea that drew all the attention.

You are supposed to pick up the book and say, “Wow, Denver gets modern advertising. I should move there or search for my next agency there.”

You also wrote, “Let’s say you move to a different shop in Denver. You’ve been in the 50. There’s a 100% chance the shop you’re moving to has been in it too.” I do not understand this comment. Only 13 shops in the whole market got into the 2007 50. It’s very unlikely that any given shop got into the show.

I understand the point of the book, just not the show. They’ve made the book and the show do double duty by combining them into one to save money. I get that. It explains the lack of awards in the book and the level playing field representation so no particular shop appears to be favored. I understand why the owners have done this because it encourages more people to enter into the book/show.

However, if I’m a creative and I’ve won Best of Show, I think I would really enjoy the $15-25k this recognition would add to my salary in this market. Or the promotion, or whatever.

I also understand that there was a spec backlash at one time in regards to the Denver Addy show. Spec is just a part of ad show life. It’s inevitable. One of the most highly awarded campaigns of last year at Cannes and the One Show is widely rumored to be spec. It happens.

It’s definitely good to have a book that showcases Denver. But the Minneapolis Show book showcases Minneapolis and it has medals. And because there are distinct winners doesn’t make it any less of a creative showcase than any other book.

As for my other comment, if you’re moving, chances are you’re moving to a better shop. So, the odds are pretty good the shop you’re moving to is in the 50 book, yes? I don’t know about you, but if I’m moving from one shop to another in Denver, that shop has been in the 50, guaranteed.

Is this book being sent out to pitch consultants?

I’m not so sure decisions are made like “Denver gets modern advertising. I should search for my next agency there,“——it comes down to the capabilities/track record of a particular shop, compensation, prior relationships and in many cases, the prestige of being associated with a hot shop.

The 50 book was well done. But I wonder how local creatives benefit from being in it? Tell me more.

I wanna love it. Seriously.

So David, did you get in?

No, he didn’t. But inevitably he’ll have some sharp-tongued excuse as to why not. Frickin’ wind bag.

hear, hear.

If the guy doesn’t get the difference between a show based solely on ideas and one that awards pretty design, what the hell is he doing in this business?

Seems like he’s barely in the business at all, as evidenced by the sheer number of comments he’s dropped on this board over the last couple days. He sure has a lot of free time on his hands.

I think what David wrote is fair. It’s good to have someone bring up the other side of things. Discussions can lead to better ideas. I don’t think it’s necessary to make comments about him just because he’s questioning certain aspects of the 50 show. Let’s stay on topic here and leave the personal jabs out of it.