Are Comment-Free Fridays Just For Spineless Cowards?

As a non-contributing partial-owner of the Egotist, I can't say that I love this piece.

I'm all about giving you freedom-of-opinion, as you're an invaluable asset to the site and the network, but the truth is that we have no idea what the shop's motivations are for embracing a no-comments policy. They could be cowardly, but it's also a pretty reasonable business consideration. Few clients are going to have the spine for this kind of crowd, even if the agency itself could stomach it, and voluntary inclusion in this kind of environment could easily be seen as irresponsible. It's not like clients don't go around Googling their own PR.

More importantly, an editorial like this is going to discourage shops from contributing at all, which hurts the site and hurts the city. The Egotist could either display work without comments, or not display the work at all. Between the two, it seems obvious that the city is better served by displaying work without comments.

Poor form, in my opinion.

Felix, I agree with you fully here. CFF is a joke to me as well. I hear you on the anonymous tags, as I still feel strongly that people should own everything they say. Its kind of a wuss move to comment unproductive comments...just because. Although you may not do it, other annon comments generally are either off point, are attacking, or have no real grounds of reel feedback, whether it be positive or negative. As a member that comments behind their name everytime, I actually stopped reading the comment sections as they have gotten so ridiculous.

On the other side, there has actually been some work on here during CFF that I would have loved to comment with positive notes. I have seen some good work on CFF that deserves, at least, a pat on the back. These posts on CFF are not able to get even positive feedback. The firm you speak of, may have some great work, and now has no place to gauge improvement or not. Its pretty easy to me. If you are in the business of providing commercial art for the public and cant take public opinion or criticism, you should probably find another line of work. Just saying.

100% behind you on this. I have even started a forum regarding this a while ago with no response. Great post and I'll be the one buying you the brew. To TDE, again, I recommend taking off all annon tags and allowing only members to comment. If this truly is a place to help grow Denver (and now more cities) creative, maybe its time to ensure posts are created by relevant members with relevant thoughts. I dont really see a downside to doing this, especially since we all have our own member accounts anyway.

Oh yea, looking forward to multiple anonymous posts after mine.

I can't answer your question... you make a good point. Personally, I really enjoyed the run of Denver work being posted. Whatever the intentions of those who submitted, including myself, it was a vehicle for people to say, "check this out." I started checking to the Egotist to see what would be posted. It got me inspired to submit. It seemed to get more people involved.

I have two quick questions:

1. Did the Denver community ask for comment free submissions or was it just offered by the Egotist?
2. Can't it be an easy fix - Why don't you change it to just "Friday Submissions" and let people critique the work?

To pieratt. I've got to back Felix on this one. (usually I dont)

Its hard for me to believe you can say something like "I'm all about giving you freedom-of-opinion, as you're an invaluable asset to the site and the network," and then say comments should be turned off.

The probelm is these shops and individuals are getting attacked by annonymous comments that have no relevance to the topic on hand. Your product (TDE) is being lessened quality wise because of it. In my opinion, you should look at this at it source...not because an editor calls it out.

@Bryce Botyer

1). CFF was put into place by us, and we stand by its effectiveness. Look at all the cool work we've seen over the last four weeks from people who don't typically submit – work we wouldn't be seeing otherwise.

We've heard time and again that people don't want to hear anonymous trolls comment about hating something without any reason why. It's okay not to like something, but take the time to explain your reasoning. Act like a creative director, instead of a useless twerp.

2). Why does Friday have to be deemed submission day? Send stuff to us anytime. We post the majority of work we receive. And if we haven't posted what people have sent, we're getting around to it. Promise.

I've always felt the beauty of this blog is to help raise the bar in Denver. If the bar is fully raised here now then when is W+K/Denver planning to open. Or why hasn't Tracey Wong called me tell me about Seattle or why isn't Jeff Goodby a judge at one of our local award shows. That doesn't mean we not trying to all move in the right direction, just means we still have work to do. And we should thank our peers that comment in ways to better our projects. Sure they probably would say 9 out 10 times "that's not how I would have done this..." but the take it all with a grain of salt. If you work in a creative department in this business you should very well be accustomed to getting the shit kicked out of your work. And if you're afraid of what your clients may feel seeing their work bashed on here, then you should prob find a way to turn the internet off, because this is probably not the only place their work is being bashed. We live in a transparent world these days so people are talking whether you like it or not. Wait...isn't that the point of an ad anyways?

Does anyone feel that only allowing members to comment would quickly turn the discussions stale and sterile? We do.

Why did you change the title of this post already? Please don't censor Felix... or anyone for that matter. That's part of his charm and the Egotist's appeal. I think his original title summed it up far better. Now if a company requests taking comments down that's fine. But don't tell the man how to write.

Well, first I must address Pieratt as you are a partial owner of The Egotist. I am a contributor, I bring a lot of traffic to the site and I am helping to shape the future of this blog. I obviously don't want to do anything to hurt that success, which is why I had to comment on the CFF issue. I think it's a step backwards to turn off comments. I think it has a place, but how are we helping Denver suck less if we just silence the crowd that loves the blog? Poor form, maybe, but it was something that needed to be said. The fact that I can say it, and analyze the blog that gives me a voice, is something to be proud of though. If you want to silence me as well, think deep and hard about the direction you want for The Egotist. Ads Of The World is always taking submissions, and I don't see them turning off the comments bar any time soon.
As for changing "pussies" to "cowards" that was not my call. I think tonally it's softer, but as long as I'm heard, I don't care.

TDE, I think because a majority of the people who comment are members anyway. At the very least long time readers. I dont believe it will become stale. I do believe it will help keep things on topic and less destructive.

I reference sites like motionographer, all members comment. Everything is on par... Personally I can't stand the "This sucks balls" (etc) comments as they are helping Denver suck MORE if anything as we see this sort of thing on almost every blog (not geared to help something suck less)...

It wouldn't hurt to try?

I agree with bwell. I took a look at the last couple of Editorials (where most of the discussion occurs) and a lot of the discussion already comes from registered users.

Maybe it is time to hold anonymous users accountable as just that, an anonymous user.

TDE you say "We've heard time and again that people don't want to hear anonymous trolls comment about hating something without any reason why. It's okay not to like something, but take the time to explain your reasoning. Act like a creative director, instead of a useless twerp" However, you have really done nothing to address the problem (besides CFF). CFF just avoids the problem and adds nothing to the blog as Felix argues.

Now I will probably get shat on for even bringing this up, but perhaps if you choose to post anonymously your comment will be moderated. If it is pointless hating then it never sees the light of day. If it is hating with reasoning then it sees the light of day. Now obviously that puts a lot of power into someones hands, but I trust TDE would not abuse this power. Then maybe there would be no need for CFF in the first place. Those submitting their work deserve props for great work and constructive criticism if it could be better. Just another option to consider for the future.

I do not want to silence anonymous users, but try to get rid of the pointless hating with no accountability. If you want your pointless hating shown without moderation then register. But would that really stop pointless hating with no accountability? Who knows.

Perhaps I am taking it to far, but maybe this needed for TDE to continue growing in a constructive manner? Discuss

Cowardly Cat +1

Here's another point that I didn't mention in the article. Turning off comments gives the agency a huge safety net. They can throw any old crap on here and know it won't get called out. I, for one, want people to really think twice before bragging about work that makes Denver better. The last thing we want this to be is a repository for any agency looking for free PR. How soon before we get the dregs of Denver posting rubbish on CFF? I pray that doesn't happen.

So, TDA, will see some more work from you tomorrow?

CFF is perfect for me . I'm shy and have low self esteem ;)

Personally, I was impressed with how Moxie Sozo dealt with a crazy run of anonymous commentary. Acknowledge, engage, move on:

http://www.thedenveregotist.com/news/local/2010/april/21/introducing-new...

Everyone knows the deal. Throwing your work into a free-will-critique-cage-match arena takes courage. Unfortunately, the comments are not always constructive. Or even coherent. I agree with Felix that it forces people to question the caliber of their work before submitting.

TDE is working hard to elevate the local ad market. Comments or no comments, submit the great work.

As someone whose work was shown by cff I'll tell you the reason I submitted my work. First someone told me to (Bryce Boyer) and second the the Denver Egotist asked. (a post yesterday)

I think the second reason is the reason why comment free friday works, not the fact that it is comment free. The Denver Egotist may have a policy that encourages work submissions at any time. But I think the fact that they have been asking for cff submissions is the reason for those submitting work. There may be a few that shy away for the potential criticism, but I believe that is the exception, not the rule.

For the most part the comments here are tame compared the rest of the internet. The the comments tend to be more intelligent.

"Does anyone feel that only allowing members to comment would quickly turn the discussions stale and sterile? We do." (TDE)

It depends on your goal of the site.

If you want this place to truly exist as a community that is helping one another succeed both as an industry and individually, then no. I give much more weight and respect to people who use their names. There are enough people with varied opinions that it wont go sterile.

If you want your comments to inflame discussion but not always be respected (or respectable), then anonymity will keep that going.

To the Egotist that responded to my post above, you misread my post ENTIRELY.

I implied I think the idea is great... I didn't knock it. Read my post again.

I clearly said CFF is inspiring people to submit local work and to visit the Egotist to see what other people are submitting for CFF- and that is cool, right?

My first question "Did the Denver community ask for comment free submissions or was it just offered by the Egotist?" was more of a rhetorical question...

Here's my point: The Egotist offered it as comment free. The Denver creative community didn't ask for it to be comment free. It just started that way and people took up the offer.

My second question "Can't it be an easy fix - Why don't you change it to just "Friday Submissions" and let people critique the work?" had nothing to do with when to submit the work... sorry if it was vague.

My point was this... if Felix thinks Comment FREE Friday postings are for "pussies" than change it up... let it HAVE comments and the problem is solved.

Does that explain my reasoning?

A simple misinterpretation. No worries dude.

Hey Bryce.

Our response was answering your questions, but wasn't directed at you, per se. We weren't going after you with the answer, by any means. Sorry if it came off that way.

The point is, we don't care what Felix says (apologies, Felix) – and, no, just allowing Friday submissions to have comments won't solve the issue. Agency owners have the reputation of their shop to protect, and many of them don't want that reputation corrupted after a client stumbles across a belligerent thread on this site. It's too hard to build an agency to have it threatened by anonymous, uniformed twits lending their color commentary. We're offering people the chance to share their work without that worry and we're going to continue until we stop getting those submissions.

Ahh... sorry. I thought Felix was an imbedded in the Egotist Crew. I didn't realize he was a separate entity. Thanks for clearing that up.

He plays for our team, but has free reign of the field – if that makes sense.

It's true. They really don't care what I say. My next article is called "The Denver Egotist Can Suck A Big Hairy One." But to be honest, I am a contributor. I am given as much rope as I want (to hang myself with maybe) and I take full advantage of it. I am both the angel and the devil on their shoulders, and sometimes I say some stuff that may not be considered "towing the party line."

And yet, we love every word you pen, us sorry bastards.

"Well, let's not start sucking each others dicks quite yet."

Oh, and if you don't know where that comes from, you really are the pussy I mentioned in the original title of this post.

Hey Ego: I must comment on this as its a root of my point here:

"It's too hard to build an agency to have it threatened by anonymous, uniformed twits lending their color commentary. We're offering people the chance to share their work without that worry and we're going to continue until we stop getting those submissions."

1) It is my belief that if you are a company that builds content (print, web, ads, whatever) for public use, then said company should be able to take positive and negative criticism...PERIOD...therefore and editor of a site such as the EGO should not worry about such trivial "worries". "Making Denver suck" less will be unsuccessful if you continue to shelter agencies like this.

2) The annon comments should be gone to keep comments on topic. This is the root of the agencies' problems with posting. Just look at past work postings. Most every member stays on topic, while the annons more often than not seem to use the site more or less for random personal exploits. If you get rid of the crap, help keep it on topic, then the agencies will be more privy to post. If they cant take negative constructive feedback, then fuck 'em...they are in the wrong line of work.

3) Personally to me: CFF is mroe detrimental that beneficialt. For the great work I have seen the past few weeks, I cannot even say something like "Wow great work", where it is deserved. For the company you speak of posting work "without the worry" as you put it, the respect that they may have deserved on any given project is also lost.

4) Its not your job to censor...which is what CFF is. Its a safety net for those that can't take the criticism. By eliminating annon posts, you help to ensure people commenting on ANY work or article to own up to what they say and, in turn, think before writing. Nothing more, nothing less.

Passionate about this? Yes. But I hope my opinions help to give you an unbiased viewpoint as I am neither a Egotist owner or contributor.

ps, apologies for spelling... no coffee yet and pushed the "Post" before "preview" button. HA.

only on fridays, and only on that category: RCF-submitted work.

Registered Comment Fridays

only on fridays, and only on that category: RCF-submitted work.

Wish the system could handle that, but it can't. Comments on for all users, comments on only for registered users, comments off for everyone. Those are the choices.

eh regardless, you guys still rock.

this article has some good points about community:

http://www.thesfegotist.com/comment/reply/8944